For the last few weeks, Brian and I have been waxing on about all the possible plot holes and issues with the Star Wars saga. We nitpicked the hell out of it yet, despite it’s flaws and issues, we love the movies and cannot wait to tell you about all the issues and nitpicks in The Force Awakens on Friday! Enjoy our rambling.
Brad: You know what’s been bugging me lately about The Force Awakens and really about all Star Wars in general? The complete lack of historical knowledge and record keeping.
In the new trailer, Rey asks if all the stories are true and Han tells her, yeah it’s true, the dark side, the Jedi, it’s all real. And we certainly know that the events of Episode 7 are just 25-30 years since Return of the Jedi’s events where the good guys won the final battle and the empire was destroyed so how do people not know anything? That’s basically like our generation not knowing who Hitler was and what happened during the 40s. Why is Jedi-ism and the Force a dark hidden secret? Even if the Empire had won, the force is still a major entity in the universe, yet it’s hardly known about.
But this goes back to A New Hope when Luke basically knew nothing about the Force or Jedi’s or how Darth Vader came about. He knew of the Clone Wars but didn’t know about Darth Vader killing Jedi or anything else of note. I understand Obi-Wan and Yoda being in hiding but they couldn’t tell some senators or other high-ranking rebels that Anakin Skywalker is Darth Vader? Kenobi left Anakin to die but he should’ve been more pro-active once he learned about Darth Vader when he survived and told someone, anyone just in case. If the truth was more well-known that a Jedi turned to evil then maybe that would very important for the rebels to know. They never try to find a new Jedi or anything that we know of. It’s not like Kenobi is hiding very well on Tatooine either. He never changed his surname and Luke and his family knows about him despite him being a “hermit.” Owen Lars knew of Anakin becoming Darth Vader too and basically kept it to himself.
Brian: ”Hmmm, I’m in hiding from the empire, better change my name from Obi-Wan Kenobi… I’ve got it! BEN Kenobi!”
Brad: He should’ve changed it to Ken Wanobi.
Brian: Juan Quinoba
Brad: But sure, for arguments sake, this makes a little more sense since the Jedi are oppressed and in hiding and the Empire is in rule. But this still irks me that after the events of Return of the Jedi that some people in the universe don’t know the stories as real and not myths. I’m hoping that the film addresses this issue like Luke decided for some reason to go into hiding to protect the dark side (and the light side) from getting into the wrong hands and thus preventing history to repeat itself again. But the Force is within all living things and isn’t just a philosophy or martial arts—one is born with strong force powers and Luke just hiding isn’t going to help that. And he should know that. And since we now have Kylo Ren and his Sith disciples this isn’t just a theory.
This is probably the major plot of this new episode and I’m wasting my breath but getting back to Rey not realizing that the legends are true is still kinda weak. She and Finn somehow bump into Han Solo, a fighter and hero of the events of the last war. He confirms to her that the stories are true. Is this the first and only person to drop in on that desert planet that she could’ve talked to? We see in the trailers that there are destroyed Star Destroyers, so no one from the previous war ever talked to anyone or took historical record of the events? Being a Jedi is a huge deal. It’s like if we found out that magic is real and could be taught to certain capable people who are willing to study it. I’m pretty sure all over the world this news would spread like wild fire and be common knowledge and change the world. Luke, Vader, The Emperor all were major players in the events of the last war and no one decided to explain this all to people. Han, should’ve looked at Finn and Rey like they were living under a rock when they asked if all that stuff was true. Maybe Rey is living under a rock but Finn certainly isn’t.
And to further this point, Han in the first Star Wars (and that Empirical officer who called The Force “an ancient religion”) barely believed that Jedis, Siths, The Force are worth caring about. How is a religion/philosophy/magic power suppressed this much, especially when the leaders of the universe have such powers and practice such religions? They’re in power so it should be more influenced on the populous no? That Officer who got force choked in public after mocking its power should’ve converted right away or the very least told a thousand people about it. That’s like Lazarus returning from the dead by Jesus and just going back to his daily routine as before he died. Wouldn’t you tell as many people as possible!? So now that Han believes how awesome the Jedi power is after knowing Luke and (supposedly) marrying Leia, he should’ve been more outspoken about its power to everyone he saw. Even if Luke didn’t want to continue the Jedi tradition, rebuild temples or train other possible Jedi, someone else in the alliance should’ve. Lando perhaps? Admiral Akbar? General Madine or Mon Mothma?! I even seem to remember one of the generals in either ANH or RotJ telling the pilots “May the Force be with you.” So there again, this isn’t a consistently kept secret.
Or it could be like our current religions I suppose. We have a lot of Christians and Jews and Muslims who all believe in the same god and practically the same philosophies but they have no special powers that we know of but we all heard stories that are fantastical and sometimes supernatural. Not all of us in the world are Christian, Jewish or Muslim yet we somehow in our lifetime will hear the tales. We may not believe them but we think of them as legends and myths. Are the Jedi and Sith like this in the Star Wars universe? Han knows there’s crazy Jedi people who think they can lift rocks with their minds but since he never saw anyone do it he thinks it’s fairy tale stuff.
But then he does see the powers they have and yet he still doesn’t care about it. When a casual new acquaintance asks if the stories are true, he acts like it’s the first time anyone ever heard about it. Just kinda strange.
Brian: Maybe in the context of the new movie that line will make more sense but you’re right, how would they not know about it? Maybe Rey doesn’t because she seems to be on her own on a wasteland of a planet and probably just keeps to herself. And I’ve read that Finn was raised to be a Stormtrooper and taught that Luke Skywalker was a bad guy, so he probably doesn’t know what truly went down because he was indoctrinated to believe something else. So in their cases, maybe it’s legitimate.
As far as the original trilogy, yeah, the ancient religion thing always bothered me, especially since as you said Vader can and does display his power. That’s not like choosing to believe in God or not, his Force power is a tangible thing that’s obviously real, so dismissing it really isn’t an option.
You’d think after the fall of the Empire that the Jedi wouldn’t have to hide anymore and they could rebuild their order. Non-Jedi probably couldn’t train other Jedi, and maybe Luke is the last one, or at least the last one who knows about the Force. Maybe there are people who could become Jedi but they just don’t know it. Maybe they just don’t have the means to get their midichlorian count checked.
Brad: It was only like 18-20 years since the events of Revenge of the Sith and A New Hope and that dismissive officer was way older than 20 so he should at least remember that there was a fucking Jedi council and temple right in the middle of the capital planet. Where was he when all those Jedi were fighting the Clone Wars? This is why the prequels fucking suck and failed miserably.
But I see your point about Rey. She was most likely raised on such a barren and low-life planet that the only decent education about the past is heresy and lore.
I also want to know why Leia never bothered to hone her Jedi powers with Luke. She’s obviously an outstanding upright and good-natured person to learn the ways of the light side of the force. But from what I’m seeing and hearing it still looks like she doesn’t know jack about the force.
I’m also wondering what’s the big deal about Anakin’s old lightsaber (the one Luke lost on Bespin). The lightsaber is just a weapon and it’s not a magic wand, yet it looks like the discovery and possession of it seems very important in this new film. Why would Kylo Ren want it other than to possess an old relic of Vader’s? Please don’t tell me that he or the Knights of Ren plan on obtaining DNA samples from the Jedi crystals inside the saber to clone Darth Vader or his Midiclorian count to make someone else with the force as powerful as Anakin was. Actually, that doesn’t sound half-bad (as long as they don’t actually clone Anakin back to life that is but obtain his power—that I can back).
The 30+ year old gap between RotJ and TFA is also bugging me now more so because it looks like there’s a ton of stuff that they have to quickly catch up with or forget to explain altogether. Did the Rebels really win against the Empire or have they still been fighting for over 30 years? Or was there peace and calm for a while and slowly but surely the Empire morphed into the First Order and win some battles? I feel like them wanting to continue the story of Luke, Leia and Han with the original actors could possibly have an adverse effect on the plot. 30 years is a very long time to miss out on stories.
Brian: Leia has been hooked on space morphine ever since her harrowing experience on Endor. JJ Walker-Abrams said that she’s a General in the new picture so I guess she did that instead of Jedi Grandmother.
They probably don’t have to quickly catch up on those 30 years because there are going to be 6 movies covering the shit.
Brad: What’s with the rankings of chicks in the Star Wars universe? They’re always getting demotions. First it was Queen Amadala then in the next film she’s just a senator. Isn’t a queen a queen by birthright and always stays a queen until death? And Princess Leia was a pointless princess until now, when she’s just a military general. So she’s not royalty anyone? So odd.
Brian: I looked it up, and she was elected queen. At age 14. Does that make any fucking sense whatsoever? Why would the people elect a teenager to their highest office? Why would she be called queen if she wasn’t actually royalty? Wouldn’t she be President Amidala of Prime Minister Amidala? Why did she wear that costume? What was the face paint about? Why did she put on that fake voice? To sound more mature or something? Where is everyone else in her city/country? Is she queen of the entire planet? Can’t be, because the Gungans also live there. She’s called Queen of Naboo, which is the whole planet, so I guess she is? How do you govern an entire planet? Maybe Naboo is the size of Wyoming? WHY WOULD AN ENTIRE FUCKING PLANET ELECT A TEENAGER TO RULE THEM???!?!?!!!!!
Brad: I think you have to be a teenager because in one of the other prequels there’s a new queen of Naboo and she’s no older than what Padme was. So fucking dumb.
Brian: It would be better if Naboo lived by Logan’s Run rules.
Brad: I wonder if we’ll see any Force Ghosts in these new movies? I mean, there should be no reason to not see them. If Luke communicated with Kenobi and saw Yoda and his father, then there shouldn’t be any reason that they would stop right?
Brian: Who would be the force ghost, though? Can’t have Alec Guinness do it. I guess Yoda? I would be OK with that. But if they have Hayden Christensen as Anakin Force Ghost I’ll walk right the fuck out.
Brad: They could have Guinness but just hologram him with CGI like what Kanye did with Michael Jackson or how Lawrence Olivier was CGI’d back from the dead for Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow. Yeah, I’m with you, if Hayden Christensen has any part in this new saga I may break out in hives.
Brian: I hope a Ghost Jabba is haunting Luke.
Brad: I have a feeling the first half hour is going to be fucking awesome in Episode VII because of all the explaining and reveals they have to give the audience. Then it’ll be like 45 minutes of traveling, talking and desert scenes and then the last 30 minutes all out war stuff.
Brian: I think you’re right. There’s going to be a shitload of setup. But fortunately it won’t be about trade treaties.
I am very happy that the protagonists are a woman and an African-American gentleman. And a Guatemalan. I predict that Finn will turn out to be Leia and Lando’s love child. And then Kylo Ren kills him because the Rens are the Space Klan.
Brad: You know what I just realized? That the only force power in physical form that Obi-Wan shows in A New Hope is when he force moves something to distract a couple of Stormtroopers while he was turning off the tractor beam. Otherwise he just uses Jedi Mind tricks and the whole talking to Luke when he died bit.
And if he can move something to make a distracting noise why didn’t he force move the Tractor Beam switches from afar instead of walking in that hard to maneuver plank?
Brian: He was pretty old, maybe he just couldn’t move shit like he used to.
Brad: Yoda was way older and he lifted a 4 ton X-Wing out of a swamp. He was supposedly way stronger with the force though.
Which makes me wonder; was the lifting of the X-Wing out the swamp to prove to Luke’s whiny ass that it could be done, make Yoda ten times weaker and ultimately kill him? Yoda was dying just a short time after he pulled that huge stunt. I blame Luke for basically killing Yoda.
Brian: Good theory, that probably did kill Yoda. I always wondered why Yoda was suddenly on his death bed in Return of the Jedi. He had lived that long and a couple months later he’s just too old to go on?
Brad: And that’s another reason the prequels suck. 18 years prior he was taking on the Emperor and holding his own in that vicious fight and then he’s too tired to go on 18 years (of 900) years later. Just doesn’t make sense unless he totally let himself go while on Dagobah. Maybe his diet was simply junk food.
Brian: Yeah he’s flipping around and moving everything with the Force and all that shit then 18 years later he’s dying. Maybe his species’ has a definite life span of 900 years, period.
Brad: Hey remember when the barkeeper in the cantina told Luke that they don’t serve droids? What would they even serve a droid with? They don’t eat or drink! Maybe one dumb droid attempted to drink and got so shit-faced that he made a complete mess of the place.
Brian: HAHAHAHA! One of the standalone movies should be about that. Maybe that droid who was getting his feet burned. It was punishment for trashing the cantina.
It’s probably like rednecks here, the bartender is sick and tired of droids taking away the jobs of good honest Tattooinians.
What does the Cantina owner have against droids?
Brad: Droids raped his sister.
Brad: I just realized something else. Han had a lot of reward money that he needed to pay back to Jabba right? But instead he helped Luke at the battle of Yavin and helped destroyed the Death Star which made him a hero of the rebellion. But instead of then going back to Tatooine to pay back Jabba he wasted time accepting a stupid medal! Which angered Jabba more and sent out more bounty hunters for him. If he didn’t go to the the medal celebration and instead paid back Jabba, then most of the events that take place in Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi wouldn’t have happened.
Why didn’t he just make a lowly rebel recruit fly to Tatooine to bring the money to Jabba if he really needed to get that medal. Or Chewbacca! It’s not like he got a medal and needed to be there.
Brian: I guess stuff just kept coming up in Han’s shedyool and he kept putting it off until it was too late. It’s a powerful lesson in procrastination.
Brad: And speaking of Bounty Hunters, did Darth Vader pay Boba Fett for capturing Han Solo? Because Jabba already was going to pay him also. Isn’t that a conflict of interest of some sorts? Two people paying the same bounty hunter for the same bounty?
Brian: I think it was a double bounty. Vader was paying the bounty hunters to find Han so they could lure Luke, and Jabba wanted Han for a trophy. Different scenarios. But then, why didn’t Vader just hire the bounty hunters to find Luke? Or do both? And technically Han went to Bespin of his own accord, so Boba Fett didn’t really fulfill that contract.
Brad: A double bounty? If I was Jabba I’d be a little leery of someone else hiring the same bounty hunter even if it was for the same reasons. But great point about why didn’t Vader just hire bounty hunters to get Luke as well. Sure his scheme worked by beating them to Bespin but that could’ve failed miserably.
And was the rebellion that surplussed with cash that they can pay a smuggler all that loot for a near-death rescue? I know Princess Leia is probably very wealthy but again, remember her planet of Alderaan was annihilated and so was most of her wealth in the process. Where did she get that money to pay Han?!
Brian: There was no fucking money. they were going to kill him when the mission was over. They planned to have R2 anally electrocute him.
Brad: They actually paid Han though. When Luke was trying to convince him to stay and fight because he’s an excellent pilot and Han blew him off, he and Chewie were loading a lot of little gray boxes onto the Falcon, which I always assumed were little cash boxes. Maybe as a kind Fuck You to Han for just wanting to be paid, they paid him in the smallest denominations as they could. Kind of like paying him a million dollars in pennies.
Brian: Oh right. I think as a kid I always just thought those were supplies or something.
If Boba Fett knew the Falcon was going to float away with the garbage, why did he wait?
Brad: Like why didn’t he just capture them then and there.
Brian: If he knew they were clinging to the star destroyer why didn’t he do something before? “Oh hey, there they are. Now where’s that bounty?”
Brad: His ship probably couldn’t take the Falcon in a fight nor effectively follow them. If the Falcon knew he was there they would just outrun him or out gun him.
Oh wait. Their Hyperdrive wasn’t working. Damn. I have no excuse for him. Or maybe he thought the Empire wouldn’t give him anything since the Falcon never actually left.
Brian: But he told Vader that they went to Bespin. It’s not like he actually caught them. Vader just said there was a bounty for the one who found the Falcon.
Brad: He still found them. Sort of. He probably left out the part that they were stuck to the star Destroyer and drifted off with the garbage.
Brian: But like you said, he didn’t know their hyperdrive was down. He’s a shit bounty hunter.
Brad: What I’m saying is, if he told the Empire that they were still among the Star Destroyers then Vader probably would’ve reneged on the bounty since he Falcon was still there. So Fett let them go a little bit, wait to find out where they go and then look like he did something.
I was always confused how the empire beat the Falcon to Bespin anyway. Fett was pursuing the Falcon and wouldn’t really know where the Falcon was going until it reached the Bespin area. Meaning, the Falcon would already have been so close and way closer than the Empire would be. I know the Bespin security team gave Han shit for landing but that wouldn’t have bought the Empire that much time to get there would it? Maybe with hyperspace, it could perhaps. But Fett could’ve totally of tried to ambush Han and Leia when they arrived, maybe give Fett a little something to do an earn his bounty.
Brian: I can’t remember why Vader just let Boba Fett take Han. Why did he give a fuck about Fett and Jabba?
Brad: Vader only used Han as bait and was all for giving him to Fett to give to Jabba after Luke arrived to Bespin. Han was also the guinea pig for the carbon freezing because for some reason, Vader thought freezing Luke to bring to the emperor was a great idea.
Brian: But why did Vader give a fuck about Fett getting his Jabba bounty or not? I thought he was supposed to be a ruthless villain. He could have just shot him. And he could have tested the carbon freeze on literally anyone.
Brad: Vader may have been a hard-on for certain things or people but with Fett and Calrission he was surprisingly easier on. He could’ve killed them all, especially Leia, Lando and Chewbacca but let them stay on Bespin? Why?! They were rebels after all.
Brian: I KNOW!! Vader made a deal with Lando? Isn’t he supposed to be like Space Hitler? Why didn’t he just take Bespin by force? Get it? FORCE??!!
Brad: And how would Vader know that Luke had enough power of the force to feel that his friends are in trouble and would come to their rescue? That’s a huge assumption. And then what would Vader do is Fett actually shot and killed Luke?
Brian: I guess just move on.
Brad: “What do you mean you shot him?” “Sorry Darth, I didn’t even know who he was. He shot at me first!” Yeah I guess more power to the dark side then. No loss.
Brian: Vader wants to freeze Luke to take him to the Emperor. How about handcuffs? Or put him in a bag.
Brad: He’d just Force his way out of any of that. Freezing him is the only alternative.
Brian: Leia’s hairstyle is different. When the fuck did she do that?
Brad: She had a makeover. In the Bespin Spa.
Brad: Ha! And it always bothered me that the hidden Stormtrooper that shoots C-3PO sounds so different.
Brian: He got high with Chewie.
Brad: Fair enough.
Brian: “Luke don’t it’s a trap!!” “Well OK I’m fucking out of here then.”
Brad: Hahaha. Well if someone was that vague in a warning I wouldn’t know what to do next either. So is that Lobot guy, is he constantly controlled by Lando?
Brian: Mostly for sexual reasons.
Brad: After watching that Lapti Nek video, Jabba killed that decent-looking alien chick, Oola, when she refused his advances. But at the same time of her dancing, there was a plumper, way uglier slave woman as well. I’m assuming she was Jabba’s best slave since she’s still alive?
Brian: That slave reminded Jabba of Hutt women. Why was he the only Hutt in his palace? Did he kill the others?
Brad: In the prequels, there were more Hutts sliding around so maybe he did slaughter them to be the biggest Hutt on Tatooine.
Brian: Jabba was probably such a jerkoff at that point that his family wanted nothing to do with him, especially after multiple failed interventions.
Brad: And if I remember correctly, Tatooine was so outside of the rim of federated planets that the Empire never gave a shit about it, despite one of their leaders being from there. And if he hated it so much, you’d think with all that hate brewing inside, he’d fucking eradicate it out of existence.
And why didn’t Vader think it was strange that Princess Leia was going to Tatooine, HIS HOME planet at the beginning of ANH? She clearly was going to find Obi-Wan there but was attacked and had to send the droids to find him. Vader should’ve been like “Hey wait a minute, why the hell is she going to that fucking barren desert place for? Seems very fishy to me.”
Brian: Maybe he didn’t want to blow it up because his mom is buried there. but you’d think he’d want to visit her grave since he was in the area.
Brad: Her corpse was probably dug up by Tusken Raiders and eaten.
Brian: Or dug up by Jawas and reanimated with robotic parts, and she was transformed into that trash bin-looking droid that was in the sand cruiser in A New Hope.
I just thought of something else. If Obi-Wan dropped Luke off to Uncle Owen and Aunt Beru, why didn’t they just tell him they were his parents? Why would they maintain they were his aunt and uncle? Did he say, “Dada!” and Owen said, “No, no, I’m your uncle, we won’t be discussing your real dad.”
Brad: Maybe they didn’t want to spoil the surprise when they had the Skywalker family reunion in a few years.
Brian: What is Uncle Owen farming? They live in the fucking desert.
Brad: They call it moisture farming. So I guess he’s farming moisture.
Brian: And he desperately needs Luke to help him harvest it?
Brad: Owen is a lazy old bastard. It’s no wonder Luke laments their deaths for about 3 minutes.
Brian: Why didn’t Han try to shoot Greedo first?
Brad: You mean before the long-winded conversation? And how is it that Han can understand Wookiee and Rodian but never speaks it? Yet Chewie and Greedo (& Jabba) understand English?
Brian: They don’t speak English either. Do Jabba and Greedo speak the same language?
Brad: That’s what I meant. Han understands all these languages but converses only in English but those other aliens only speak their language but understand English. Is Han that educated?
Jabba speaks Huttese. Greedo speaks Rodian. I don’t know how they converse. But again Jabba understands English so maybe they’re all multi-lingual.
Brian: Why is there a Tatooine and a Dantooine?
Brad: Why is there a Uruguay and a Paraguay?
Brian: I always thought that was confusing. Why does Han have that flying sphere that shoots lasers?
Brad: It’s Chewbacca’s sex toy. But what is the point of that helmet with the blind visor?!
Brian: Yeah, it’s a “blast shield” but when would that be useful? You put it down if someone throws a thermal detonator at your face? Maybe Chewie keeps shooting his load at Han’s eyes.
Brian: “That boy is our last hope.” “No, there is another.” “Oh right, Leia? Shit, I forgot about her.”
Brad: He probably did forget. Would explain why he never told Luke anything about her.
Brian: He’s fucking useless too.
Brad: All the Jedi’s are jerks and not helpful at all. Yoda lies to Luke too. Why keep it all a secret?
Brian: Especially since they were the last two Jedi. What’s to protect?
Brad: Right. If they don’t train Luke or Leia then all is lost.
Brian: How does Chewbacca not know he put C-3P0’s head on backward?
Brad: Chewbacca was high as a kite in that scene.
Brian: Ok I’ll buy that.
You know Chewie doesn’t really affect the plot one way or another in the whole trilogy.
Brad: well in Jedi he sort of does when he and those two Ewoks commandeer that AT-ST. But yeah that doesn’t really turn the tide of battle either.
Brian: And the only thing C-3P0 ever does is help with convincing the Ewoks not to kill everyone. But they probably could have resolved that another way
Brad: Han is essentially useless in Jedi too.
Brad: Why would the Empire keep the shield generator to their new Death Star in a small bunker that’s guarded by maybe a dozen troopers?
Brian: Right. And on an inhabited planet.
Brad: The rebels should’ve just built their own Death Star.
Brian: The Freedom Ball.